I teach first grade CTT with a very small group of disadvantaged children. However four of these very young children, all boys, are quite violent. That means they bite, stab children with the tips of pencils, throw chairs and staplers etc at children and adults. Three of these disruptive children refuse to engage in any instruction at all--they rarely sit down long enough to attempt to do any work or listen to instruction or even to stories. My thought is, that if they could somehow be brought to become involved in classroom activities then the other behaviors might recede. Or at least, I'd have something to work with in terms of behavior modification if I could get them interested in classroom activities. Surprisingly, two of these boys are general education children. They have been referred for evaluation but the process is going nowhere since the parents are not cooperating. The other boy is special ed and will be shortly transfered to a more restrictive setting. So my question really concerns the two general ed kids who won't sit for instruction. My co-teacher and I have tried offering incentives, we make sure that the work is on the boys' levels, we try coordinating with parents to offer rewards both at school and at home for days when the boys choose to sit for instruction. But they won't take the bait. They run around the classroom, throwing things, and even run around the school building. The administration at my school doesn't offer much support and so it is left to the classroom teachers to solve these kinds of problems. Do you have any suggestions for us to try? We'd be grateful. Thanks.

If you had been trained as a counselor instead of a teacher, you would know the answer to this question. Counselors are routinely taught about conduct disorders, the most unmanageable of all students. They exist in large numbers, making up about 11-14% of the population. (Teachers are not routinely offered this vital information in college; I don't know why.) These youngsters are the most unmanageable students that exist. C.D. can only be diagnosed by a counselor, just like only counselors and doctors can diagnose ADHD. When you think you spot ADHD, you adjust accordingly. In the same way, you must adjust how you work with conduct disorders. Ordinary interventions fail with conduct disorders. There is your explanation for why "nothing works." Here is a link to an article that will give you basic, introductory information on what to do to get back in control of these hard-to-manage students: http://www.youthchg.com/education.html#conduct. Here is the link to a $15 book that will provide all you need to know to control your uncontrollable students: http://www.youthchg.com/guide.html#antisocial. You may start seeing results fairly quickly if you switch methods.
Last edited by Ruth Herman Wells, M.S., Director, Youth Change at 2008-03-18 11:21:39

Date: 2008-02-27 15:39:21 Name: Lisa Stone Subject: Stressed out ED teacher in out of control grades 1-3 Job Title: SED primary teacher Number: 22

I "teach" in a classroom for emotionally disturbed first through third graders. At the beginning of the year I had the class under control. Since January 2008, I received one 6 year old boy who has ODD,ADHD, Mood disorders. He is always defiant and creates havok in the classroom daily. He refuses to do anything he is told to do. He kicks other students, pushes chairs into them, throws furniture and other objects, crawls under desks, stands on desks and chairs and whatever else he can do to get attention. I have recommended that he be sent to a treatment center, but my supervisor says that he is a typical ED child. I got another student at the same time who is ADHD, ODD,mood disorders. She is also 6 years old. She screams at everyone including me. I am unable. She fights with the other students, name calling, refusing to do work, cooperate or anything else. The other students pick up on all of this noise, defiance and disrespect. There are two other girls who speak to me in nasty tones of voice and talk back all the time. Everyone else thinks its OK to talk like this to me. Another boy yells at me, argues with me daily and refuses to do anything he is told. This room is totally unmanagable and I don't want to back there. My principal is not supportive. I have a teacher aide who does support me in any way. In fact, if I tell them one thing, she does the opposite as if protecting those kids from me. I have asked for help, but I don't get and I am made to feel as all of this is my fault. HELP! I'm falling apart.

This situation sounds untenable. First, you need to update your skills for working with E.D. students. One of the most important things E.D. kids-- or all kids, actually-- need is to feel they are in a safe, controlled environment where somebody is in charge. They reliably deteriorate in all kinds of ways otherwise. That is what you are seeing in your classroom. This is serious. I can't squeeze a full solution for this big of a problem into a tiny space like this. Please consider coming to one of workshops. You will be able to name the problems and get flooded with solutions. See our workshop schedule here If you are on a bad budget, we have work study financial aid slots. If you can't come live, our recorded class info is here, click. Second, once you have upgraded your skills, start over. Shut down your class, rename it, start completely fresh. It will be much easier to start over than to do clean-up. There are no shortcuts to bypass these steps. I am concerned about safety issues. Please consider getting the full help you need from us or from somewhere else knowledgeable about E.D. students.

Last edited by Ruth Herman Wells, M.S., Director, Youth Change at 2008-02-28 14:32:41

Date: 2008-02-10 12:17:39 Name: J.Wails Subject: Difficult Group Job Title: Teacher Number: 21

I have taken over a Maternity (the third substitute with this class) leave. I have been told numerous times that this group is, in essence, "The Perfect Storm". Individually, the kids are very sweet and could easily be managed in different classes. 40% of my class has ADHD/ADD; two kids have severe Aspergers; half a dozen others are seeing counsellors, psychologists or therapists. It's not a group of psychopaths and they aren't terribly violent (though the Aspergers kids have a streak) but I'm getting near my wits end.

It's an Inquiry based program that many of the parents put their children in because they felt that "conventional education failed their kids". This explains the huge number of difficult students in this group (there are only about 4 students with no behavioural, social or learning difficulties) There are numerous challenges that this group has but the largest two that remain (I've sufficiently dealt with two of them): 1) Lack of respect for private property 2) Lack of respect for people There are 17 boys and 3 girls in this class and approximately half of them have issues with these two (some of them severe). I'm creating a disciplan right now but I am having a hard time brainstorming concequences for these two rules. ANY (and I mean ANY ideas) would be a great benefit to me. This is not a behaviour disorders class and it's become virtually impossible to keep up with curricular demands with this group. My P and VP are both very supportive and aware of my class's issues.

Reply written by Ruth Herman Wells, M.S., Director, Youth Change at 2008-02-11 16:18:50

Consequences are not sufficient to rein in all types of students. Expecting a few consequences to fit your entire range of students is like expecting a couple of text books to fit your entire range. You did such a good job of listing off the different types of students you serve. Now you need to develop a plan that fits the range. Part of the plan does need to be a VARIETY of consequences. Another part of the plan must be to TEACH the SKILLS students need to follow the rules. You will need to teach discussion skills, peer interaction skills or whatever areas that students need to master to comply with your regulations. Note that consequences will not compensate for missing skills. Expecting consequences to compensate for missing behavior skills is like expecting consequences to compensate for missing academic skills. Neither will work. For more details on what to do, click here: http://www.youthchg.com/special.html#1 and http://www.youthchg.com/conference.html for follow-up articles.

Date: 2008-02-07 08:07:45 Name: Juan Bedoy Subject: Students Job Title: Classroom Supervisor Number: 20

I am the in-school suspension room in my town's middle school. I'm looking for advice on how to deal with students that think school is a waste of time and dont really care about about thier education.

Wow. Asking us for ways to motivate students to care about school? That's like walking into McDonald's and asking if they've got any burgers. We've got so many methods to convince students that they can't even make it through the morning without education that I can't even figure out where to start. Let's have you first see some of our most powerful interventions, our posters. You don't have to buy the posters, you can just use the interventions pictured. Look at these posters first. Another place to see some terrific strategies for motivation is here; click. Want motivation-makers in one place? Our Maximum-Strength Motivation will help.

Last edited by Ruth Herman Wells, M.S., Director, Youth Change at 2008-02-07 16:26:45

Date: 2008-01-11 16:13:40 Name: Rayetta Subject: teacher stressed, needs classroom management ages 8-12 Job Title: Asst Director Number: 19

I work for Kindercare Learning Center, I have experienced a teacher who only deals with after schoolers, and she has about 22 by herself 3 of the children are on medication for calmness the teacher is in ratio with the kids we need help!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please give us some ideas.

You wouldn't be asking the question if the teacher-child ratio appeared safe, responsible and do-able. You know the answer. Improving your staff's training on classroom management could help but even the best classroom and group management skills are not going to be a cure-all for too many students and too few teachers. These are young children and their safety and education are of paramount importance. Proper staffing and training are critical. I don't know of any shortcuts or ideas to substitute.

Last edited by Ruth Herman Wells, M.S., Director, Youth Change at 2008-01-14 15:57:23

Date: 2008-01-04 16:25:44 Name: kbailey Subject: coping with behaviors Job Title: educational assistant Number: 18

I work in a primary class with a 5 yr old boy who was recently diagnosed with ODD. Academically he knows a fair amount such as numbers to 15, letters, (recognizing and printing). He is only coming half days as he cannot seem to handle more time, he refuses to participate in gym and music, in class discussions, often repeats words or phrases over and over, runs off, hides under the desk, throws objects, jumps on me, rips things off the walls, has tried to take things home that are not his, lays on the floor, hides on me, he refuses to work,often times says "it istoo hard for me",. When most of this behavior occurs he has a smile on his face like he is proud . He seems to have problems holding a writing object such as pencil, crayon, marker. He can print letters but uses all capitals and when I ask him to use lower case he has tears. I am searching for information that could enable me to set him up for successes. I always try to give consequences immediately following an unacceptable behavior but things don't seem to matter to him. You can only use a specific consequence for a limited time and then he doesn't seem to care. sometimes he is sent home but he enjoys this most times, I would so love to make a difference in this child's life and want to do the right thing as much as possible. Is there something that I could read that would benefit us/ Any advice?

Reply written by Ruth Herman Wells, M.S., Director, Youth Change at 2008-01-04 17:01:29

I can't diagnose long-distance, but what you describe is far more consistent with conduct disorder. In many regions, clinicians hesitate to diagnose CD because it is such a serious disorder, plus, there can be other reasons that make professionals avoid citing the correct diagnosis. I suggest you try to contact clinician who made diagnosis and ask if CD was a real possibility, but wasn't used for extraneous reasons. Either way, consider using many of our methods for CDs because they could really help-- especially with a younger child. Be sure you read up on CDs first as you make things worse if you don't thoroughly understand how to work with them. You must use special methods; conventional approaches always fail. I strongly suggest you get our Best Answers: Conduct Disorder book, which is at this link: http://www.youthchg.com/guide.html#antisocial. (Click). Typically, 11-14% of population are CDs, so this is info you need anyway.

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